This is a block.
I'm going to, at least directly, leave society alone on this one.
Instead, I will discuss our potential (possible) status as divine creatures.
I have been reminded in recent days that science is the devil. As much as I find this idea ridiculous, and thus appealing, I have a hard time offering it any sort of treatment. I'll do it anyway.
Way before there were scientists, there were mathematicians, attempting to put a universal abstract logical language to the workings of the physical world. This toil was largely without a rigorous method of practical testing and derived more credibility from the intuitive and internal sense it made rather than what it could accomplish. It was lifting theoretical loads, not actual ones. (this reminds me of the South Park episode where the boys create a homoerotic video featuring Butters and earn 10 million theoretical dollars for the people of Canada.)
Of course, this is not strictly true. Geometry has been essential to construction for centuries and thus achieved practical relevance. Clearly (?) the Egyptians used mathematics to do what they did in terms of building monuments of living death for their human gods. I point to the late 18th and early 19th century in Western Europe as a time where math led to discoveries about the elements that make up our environment and to mechanical achievements that set off an industrial revolution which is finally catching up with us in terms of consequences.
If I don't try to get back on topic now, I never will.
Our understanding of the universe is pitiful. We can explain and name the details of the things that are currently happening but we can't answer any fundamental questions. In terms of knowing the history of an action, we can only scrape the most recent surface. Origins elude us. Deductive reasoning is an achievement that we give great respect to because so rarely do we accomplish it in a grand or meaningful way.
I can think of one time, one individual who did it well, and his piece of reasoning provides the most powerful challenge to our conceit that we are divine and special and above all else earthly and natural.
Charles Darwin provided a completely reasonable explanation for how human beings could have come about, starting from a simple life form, after a whole lot of time. This is why many have cursed his name and many others have praised it. He spent his last years with his family breeding pigeons and isolating himself from the scientific community. It must have taken some kind of guts to release his theory knowing what it would do to all who read it.
Are our genes really the most significant part of us, or even, more significant than us as whole organisms or a society of organisms? Are they the entirety of what drives us to do the things that we do?
The question that has been posed strongly in the past is: does the end justify the means? I think a better way to phrase that question is, are the means required to achieve an end more significant than the end? It has been postulated that the journey is more significant than either its origin or its final destination. This is appealing to me and might pose an answer to my new question.
Last night, I saw a concert at an art installation exploring the war in Iraq. It was, I would say, a rock band consisting of a drummer, a cello player, and a guitar player/vocalist who was a young Iraqi woman. She was beautiful, as were her words, which were inspired by Persian poetry of all stripes. This poetry was rooted in the earth - the most visceral experiences of being alive. Intoxication: both on drugs and on love for others. A celebration of the phenomenon of waking up every day and celebrating the rhythms that are instilled in our perceptions. The constant rising and setting of the sun. The beating of the heart. Finally the transiency of each of us and the possibility that we are not finished when our current consciousness closes. Love as a binding force that is more mysterious than any other and whose implications will be understood only after we understand all that our five senses detect.
A friend of mine from the past nicknamed me "Mr. Science" because of my constant preoccupation with facts and logic and my skepticism, or even contempt, for things apparently inexplicable or imperceptible at the time. This contempt and skepticism no longer seems to me appropriate.
Non-human animals can communicate. But it seems as though their communications are all related to the collection of food, warnings of predators, or mating. I suppose this is a way of sharing perceptions and consciousness but I think it is different and less complex than our own. We ask each other questions, not related to these immediate and important concerns, but purely for the purpose of sharing experiences. I think there is a desire to connect that is entirely divorced from the compulsion to mate or survive. This is close to godliness.
I can't think anymore. I have worn myself out. However, I feel that I have achieved my continual goal of digging deeper into our shared experience and forcing myself to think about things that make me uncomfortable.
To ensure that I post again soon, in an attempt to justify my claim, I put forward the idea that the most important innovation human beings have ever achieved is the question.

1 comment:
12:30:07 PM A DrOfJournalism: i published a new post
12:30:10 PM A DrOfJournalism: i think it's okay
12:42:13 PM justinbach: all right
12:42:18 PM justinbach: i'll be the judge of that, son
12:42:59 PM A DrOfJournalism: you will
12:45:58 PM justinbach: interesting
12:46:40 PM A DrOfJournalism: it's not as goal oriented as some of the posts that i really like.
12:46:49 PM justinbach: yeah it's pretty meandering
12:46:56 PM justinbach: some would say it opens a pandora's box
12:47:21 PM justinbach: what i like about a lot of your posts is the metanalysiis of interaction and society
12:47:59 PM justinbach: i mean i would say that all of our communication is exactly hte same as that of non-human animals
12:48:02 PM A DrOfJournalism: society is, i would say, the ultimate example of interaction
12:48:03 PM justinbach: so i don't really agree with the premise
12:48:08 PM A DrOfJournalism: hmm
12:48:11 PM A DrOfJournalism: of course you would
12:48:17 PM A DrOfJournalism: which is why i have that instinct
12:48:24 PM A DrOfJournalism: or at least inclination
12:48:48 PM justinbach: i guess i remain skeptical
12:49:08 PM justinbach: and i don't mean in the sense that i don't believe things that people say
12:49:16 PM justinbach: i guess i mean in the sense that i think people think they're special
12:49:28 PM A DrOfJournalism: hmm
12:49:46 PM justinbach: and i don't think they are, really
12:49:53 PM justinbach: i mean of course individuals are special to me as a person
12:49:59 PM justinbach: and people in general are special because i'm a human
12:50:07 PM justinbach: but were i not a human they wouldn't be any different from anything else
12:50:20 PM A DrOfJournalism: they would be different though
12:50:22 PM justinbach: i'd be observing their behavior and talking about how ridiculous it is that all they do is eat and reproduce
12:50:31 PM A DrOfJournalism: mmm
12:50:39 PM justinbach: the rest is details i think
12:50:43 PM A DrOfJournalism: we're a bunch of pimps and whores
12:50:49 PM A DrOfJournalism: no doubt about that
12:50:54 PM justinbach: i also think it's somewhat arrogant of mankind to think that animal interaction is less subtle
12:50:55 PM justinbach: sure
12:51:08 PM justinbach: because it's all fundamentally a matter of perspective
12:51:27 PM A DrOfJournalism: do you think animals experience wonder at the variety of life?
12:51:49 PM justinbach: i think that's an impossible question to answer either way
12:51:56 PM justinbach: everything about that question is framed by our humanity
12:52:43 PM A DrOfJournalism: true
12:52:48 PM A DrOfJournalism: i can't remove that bias
12:52:53 PM justinbach: that's the thing about all this
12:52:54 PM A DrOfJournalism: which is why i'm not a divine creature
12:53:01 PM justinbach: is that what that is?
12:53:07 PM justinbach: being able to experience everything objectively?
12:53:23 PM A DrOfJournalism: or at least from every point of view
12:53:28 PM justinbach: yeah
12:53:31 PM A DrOfJournalism: any point of view
12:53:35 PM justinbach: i would say objectivity doesn't exist
12:53:37 PM justinbach: anywhere
12:53:38 PM justinbach: anytime
12:53:39 PM justinbach: anyplace
12:53:44 PM A DrOfJournalism: so would physics
12:53:50 PM justinbach: fair
12:54:00 PM justinbach: perception is fueled by motivation to survive
12:54:37 PM A DrOfJournalism: when people are reminded of "the human condition" they become uncomfortable
12:54:44 PM justinbach: explicitly, anyway
12:55:00 PM justinbach: ah well
12:55:50 PM A DrOfJournalism: every argument i make that departs from science makes purely intuitive sense to those who come from a similar perspective
12:56:06 PM A DrOfJournalism: which makes it not even as good as early mathematics which i criticized
12:56:11 PM A DrOfJournalism: as not practical
12:56:18 PM A DrOfJournalism: which is also a problematic criticism
12:56:26 PM justinbach: well see i think that science implicitly came way before math
12:56:35 PM justinbach: though they both evolved implicitly first
12:56:36 PM A DrOfJournalism: meh
12:56:37 PM justinbach: counting days
12:56:39 PM justinbach: seasons
12:56:44 PM A DrOfJournalism: you can't consider learning from experience to be science
12:56:46 PM justinbach: theoretical reasoning is a luxury
12:56:49 PM justinbach: sure i can!
12:56:54 PM A DrOfJournalism: fucker
12:57:04 PM justinbach: people had to do shit in order to be able to just think about shit
12:57:11 PM justinbach: in order to do that shit, they had to figure shit out
12:57:13 PM justinbach: that was science
12:57:27 PM A DrOfJournalism: bah
12:57:36 PM A DrOfJournalism: i hate when i agree and disagree with you
12:57:41 PM justinbach: how's that
12:58:02 PM A DrOfJournalism: i mean it's true, it conforms to the best definition of science
12:58:17 PM A DrOfJournalism: but i think of science as necessarily involving a community
12:58:26 PM A DrOfJournalism: and collaboration
12:58:32 PM justinbach: but there's no one to say that early "science" didn't
12:58:39 PM justinbach: presumably there was someone to get the rock dropped on their head
12:58:45 PM justinbach: someone else to watch and realize that it was a bad idea
12:58:58 PM A DrOfJournalism: fine
12:59:12 PM A DrOfJournalism: but an individual learning from experience is also science according to your previous statement
12:59:29 PM justinbach: i don't think i said anything about individuals
12:59:43 PM justinbach: but i would say that yes it is
12:59:51 PM justinbach: i mean the big thing is the agglomeration of knowledge that we call culture
12:59:59 PM justinbach: all species have culture, though
1:00:04 PM A DrOfJournalism: sure
1:00:08 PM justinbach: but in most cases it's genetically embedded
1:00:59 PM A DrOfJournalism: it's a question of whether human culture is normatively more significant and meaningful than animal "culture"
1:01:03 PM A DrOfJournalism: which is again impossible to answer
1:01:05 PM justinbach: right
1:01:16 PM justinbach: significance and meaning are rooted in survival and reproduction
1:01:30 PM A DrOfJournalism: mmm
1:01:50 PM A DrOfJournalism: and i am confident that if we encountered other "complex" ways of existing they would conform to that truth
1:02:03 PM A DrOfJournalism: do you regard your last statement as truth?
1:02:09 PM justinbach: truth?
1:02:26 PM A DrOfJournalism: bah
1:02:28 PM justinbach: thanks
1:02:46 PM A DrOfJournalism: alright
1:02:52 PM A DrOfJournalism: i'm getting stomped on here
1:03:09 PM A DrOfJournalism: i ask impractical questions
1:03:17 PM A DrOfJournalism: and am riddled with contradictios
1:03:55 PM justinbach: hahaha
1:03:57 PM justinbach: well
1:04:05 PM justinbach: i'm playing the unbeatable hand
1:04:11 PM justinbach: but you're the manlier for trying to beat it
1:04:18 PM justinbach: you sir are the human condition in an IM window
1:04:54 PM A DrOfJournalism: is that beautiful?
1:04:59 PM justinbach: i have to run a subject, i'll be back in 25
1:04:59 PM justinbach: sure
1:05:01 PM A DrOfJournalism: haha
1:05:07 PM A DrOfJournalism: bueno
1:06:08 PM A DrOfJournalism: i've never been dealt a royal flush, i admit it
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